Wednesday, 19 November 2008

Human rights

The BNP's attempt to prevent its leaked membership list getting out into the public domain has failed, with most of the papers carrying stories and the BEP reporting that there are 182 members in the greater Bristol area. Not quite sure how they got the details of occupations and ages; I've got a copy of the list, but only names and addresses, no emails or phone numbers. One of my colleagues is thinking of writing to all the members in his patch, trying to start a dialogue with them about the issues that have led them to join the BNP. (He represents an almost totally 'white' area by the way).

I liked the way Nick Griffin described the leaking of the list as being in breach of the Human Rights Act... We know his party are great supporters of that piece of legislation - when it suits them.

89 comments:

La Bete said...

Yeah, no human rights for those we don't agree with! Lets write to them and make sure they know that we know where they live, to help them of course. Not as a fairly unsubtle threat (wink wink!). Can't let those evil thought-criminals get away with it!

Or maybe, just maybe, we should champion and fight for the human rights of those whose ideas we find abhorrent?

Barnsley Bill said...

And there we have it.. You are the condensed version of why I left england. You fucking numpty, your pc, left good everybody else bad ways are destroying my homeland.

Paul said...

Did you see the BNP guy on BBC complaining that he thought this meant we lived in a facist state!!!

Not sure if he was being ironic or moronic

Bristol Dave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bristol Dave said...

Sorry, previous comment had too many typos!

Paul: that was indeed amusing.

However, equally as amusing is when people describe the BNP as facist, but then call for them to be banned (a fine example is the Facebook group "Get the facist BNP off facebook"). If all these people really fail to see the irony in this then they really must be stupid.

I've got a full copy of the list with phone numbers, job descriptions, email, etc. Whilst I don't agree with any of the BNP's policies (apart from withdrawl from the EU, a policy that has probably increased that list ten-fold) and think that in the main, they're a bunch of twats, I will never deny their right to hold the beliefs they do, even if I don't agree with them - because that would be....oh yeah, facist.

Does your colleague see the delicious irony in contacting all the constituents in his area (the legality of which is fairly dubious) who are a member of a "facist" party to ask them why they've joined it? Thought not.

Old Holborn said...

Kerry darling,

Could you let me have a list of all the Labour Party members in Bristol? I'd like to write to them to discuss what on earth they are thinking.

Barnsley Bill said...

They are not thinking old holborn, they are too busy making sure that their cardies are all the same colour.. On November 28th I will have been gone for 20 years.. Shit like this has helped me get over my home sickness.. The island of the damned.

alex24 said...

Old Holborn: I want to repost what I said after you last comments..

At best you are confused, at worst you are an ignoramus.

Confused? How? Because you do not understand what a libertarian is. I mean how can you rally against illegal immigrants if you dont believe in a state? what defines them as illegal in the first place?

And by the way you ARE racist. When you prejudge a whole race of people as being of a certain type that makes you racist.

Why are you an ignoramus? Because you think that you are a powerful voice on the crest of a wave that is sweeping the nation.

The truth is your rants are so inane and of so little import that they are similar to a dog jumping in a puddle and splashing water on the side of a mountain.

Reading your blog is like reading a 15 year olds homework. I particularly like your piece on the undeserving poor - where you mistakenly confuse your own life with everyone elses.

Lets get this straight - while you have gone on to be a roaring success, some people fall behind, more often than not through no fault of their own.

Most people think that, rather than giving up on those people we should help them, but as charitable donations are not that reliable, it is better to pay for a system that supports them. How do we pay, with that dirty word - TAXES.

"I shall never again think that all tramps are drunken scoundrels, nor expect a beggar to be grateful when I give him a penny, nor be surprised if men out of work lack energy"

Who said that? Was it NU-Labour?

Im not sure if you imagine yourself to be a reincarnation of George Orwell but you are obviously too stupid to grasp anything he talked about.

Would George Orwell support hanging people from lamp posts? Would he support discrimination on account of someone's race?

And by the way you are not offensive, your just a hypocrite. I cherish the right to be offended thats why I dont want to string people up to lamp posts who have a different point of view to my own.

And by the way your arguments of guilt by association are getting tiresome.

1. Did Kerry publish the names?

2. Where does Kerry mention that she will write to the BNP members?

3. Where does she indicate that it is a good thing that their names are in the public domain?

4. Where does she say that their views should not be heard?

As far as I can tell the only piece of opinion given is about Nick Griffin using EU Human Rights legislation.

But of course MPs shouldnt be giving their opinion if they disagree with you.

PS Barnsley Bill - congratulations for leaving england, your an inspiration to us all.

But you should come and see the new socialist republic for yourself you might get a free bus pass

Barnsley Bill said...

Alex 24 said; some random shite..

I left at the ripe age of 21.. Bus pass not needed just yet..
Decades of stupidity from succesive governments helped create that list.
To be a fugitive in your country of birth is a terrible thing, I have the most profound sympathy for the people on the BNP list. And some of you need to ask yourselves "If things are so so great in Gordon Browns brave new world why does the BNP exist"?

Henry Crun said...

Kerry darling, I think you need to have a word in your fellow MP's shell-like. Use of the BNP database to write to the members in his/her constituency would constitute a crime under the Data Protection Act.

Typical Nu-Labour, ignorant of the issues, ignorant of the law, in short just plain ignorant.

Elby the Beserk said...

Oh. I thought that they were a legal political party. Don't like them, but aren't we a democracy?

Apparently not. New Labour. The political arm of the British People. They speak on our behalf.

God help us.

Kerry. You do realise you are handling stolen goods. I shall be seeing if a prosecution can be brought against you.

Elby the Beserk said...

Alex24

Free bus passes? Not for the taxpayer.

Doh. Never mind. But just remember, even in the golden glow that is Gordon Brown's Britain, there's no such thing as a free lunch...

Unless you are an MP, that is.

Arkangel said...

I might remind you Kerry, that in this country (at the moment) the law applies equally to everyone.
Whether you like it or not!!

Single acts of tyranny said...

Quite an astonishing post. You realise I presume that this list was published in breach of a court order? Does this not bother you?

Stop Common Purpose said...

I look forward to the day when Common Purpose produces a list of its members. You can find out more about Common Purpose here: www.stopcp.com

JC said...

Question - if you publish that list and the BNP has my name on it in error can I sue you ?

Womble On Tour said...

For years we in this country have taken the view that if someone belongs a legal & legitimate organisation then that is their business, and not that of anyone alligned to the government.

Now we have government sympathisers boasting that they can contact those whose belong to an opposition party, using a list that was supposedly confidential, and whose publication almost certainly breached legislation passed by the same government that these sympathisers support. To "start a dialogue".

Ms McCartyhy, you should listen to yourself - you obviously don't know just how scary that sounds.

PS - Not that you'd care, but I'm pretty sure that writing to people named on that list would in itself by illegal.

Elby the Beserk said...

"I liked the way Nick Griffin described the leaking of the list as being in breach of the Human Rights Act... We know his party are great supporters of that piece of legislation - when it suits them."

You mean the same way New Labour wheel out "commercial confidentiality" when taxpayers make FOI requests WRT PFI?

You really do want things BOTH ways, don't you, Kerry? But then, New Labour are always right. As long as the procedures are followed, that's all that matters eh? Tick. Tick. Tick. All ticked. Must be fine then.

Kerry said...

Did I ever suggest I would publish the list? No. Or that I would in any way contact the members? No.

Most papers have the list, most MPs have it. I don't intend doing anything with it, but I have to defend my colleague who actually wanted to start a genuine dialogue with these people. Aren't you always saying that MPs don't listen to people who don't agree with them?

The only problem I have with the BNP invoking their human rights is that they are at the same time campaigning for the Human Rights Act to be scrapped - as Paul says, ironic or moronic?

Interesting how a certain number of regulars on this blog are so quick to leap to the defence of the BNP and pimps. As oppressed minorities go, I can think of better causes!

The Penguin said...

Ah, but Kerry, in giving the oxygen of publicity to your wrong-thinking and potentially law-breaking colleague, you are effectively a conspirator in a criminal conspiracy and just as guilty as he /she. In fact, bearing in mind the draconian way that your government have loaded such wonderfulpieces of legislation as the Prevention of Terrorism Act onto the statute books, I would not be surprised if you are not already bang to rights.

All it would take is for someone to cache your blog as of right now, all the evidence is there. Then you wait for a change of government so that the jackboot is on the other foot...

And that of course is what is wrong with what you and your ilk have done. It may have been for the best of intentions, but what when some one less altruistic is in charge?

The Penguin

Kerry said...

So... being in possession of (an entirely unsolicited) email with a list of BNP members which every newspaper in the land seems to have a copy of, not to mention Bristol Dave, and having a discussion about whether it would be a good idea to somehow contact the people on it (in an entirely concilliatory manner) provokes outrage, and yet someone requesting assistance to string me up from a lampost is just fine? Why don't you give Old Holborn the benefit of your legal expertise?

snapper said...

Get your comments in quick lads and lassies. On current form, Kerry will soon be having a another hissy fit and close down her blog.

Again.

Right Kerry?

Kerry said...

As a Clash fan I'm all in favour of 'Give 'em enough rope'.

Though not in Old Holborn's case.

Old Holborn said...

I've BLOGGED you Kelly. Have fun.

alex24 said...

wow the bird brains are back in numbers.

Lets just address a few things.....

First of all why do you all persist in calling Kerry dear? Is it because she is a woman? If not why?

Second of all give up with the guilt by association line - its getting desperate. Kerry is not doing anything with the list, theres nothing more to add.


Barnsley Bill - "If things are so so great in Gordon Browns brave new world why does the BNP exist?"

So its Brown's fault that the BNP exist?

Can you explain how he is supposed to get rid of them other than by introducing draconian legislation?


Elbey the Beserk - actually there are free bus passes for people over 60, people who pay taxes!

Also what the hell is this about?

"Don't like them, but aren't we a democracy?"....

"Kerry. You do realise you are handling stolen goods. I shall be seeing if a prosecution can be brought against you."

You are even stupider than old holborn, Ive never seen someone contradict themselves in the same paragraph.

The Penguin - I don't think I have ever heard a more eloquent affadavit from a 9 year old ...

"in giving the oxygen of publicity to your wrong-thinking and potentially law-breaking colleague, you are effectively a conspirator in a criminal conspiracy and just as guilty as he /she."

oxygen of publicity to your wrongthinking? You sound like the jaberwocky. But kudos on the whole free speech thing again.

DaveA said...

Spelling chaps faScist.

"One of my colleagues is thinking of writing to all the members in his patch, trying to start a dialogue with them about the issues that have led them to join the BNP."

Well Kerry so you seem to be condoning the need for dialogue with BNP members. Firstly please bear in mind it is a 2 way street.

Also may I refer to one of recent blogs on Somalis.

Penguin: Makes their point.

Kerry McCarthy: This is racist.

DaveA: Makes point.

KM: This is racist.

DaveA: Makes point 2.

KM: This is racist.

As I previously mentioned PC Guardianistas do not debate the facts on race they just descend into name calling and cheap abuse as was the case on Somalis.

Today in my role in recruitment it looks like I am going to apply for a Tunisian to get a work permit for the UK, or support and advise on his application to get a Tier1 work permit. Skilled professional people like that are an asset to this country. He will first work for me in the Middle East before coming here.

However we have in this country allowed in too many immigrants and assylum seekers, who are highly visible, often unskilled and seem to come to the notice of the police far too often.

What I am saying is that I have no objection to immigration per se, but I have a big problems with the numbers and sometimes negative effect this has in this country. I am sure you Guardianistas are curling your fists in rage at the temerity to make such un-PC remarks, too bad. I will save you the trouble of speaking to the BNP that is how the majority think.

The Penguin said...

I refuse to descend to the puerile name calling that some here indulge in, otherwise I might have to enquire whether the 24 in Alex24's soubriquet was age or IQ. No, I prefer to perch upon the high moral ground, the view id so much better and the smell less offensive. :-)

However, I am still baffled about the continued use of the term racism / racist.

Are we not all the human race? (Even when pretending to be a 'King Penguin?)

The Penguin

Arkangel said...

It strikes me that by having even a conciliatory discussion with someone who's on that list, you'd be breaking the law on Data Protection. I'd back off if I were you before the full wrath of the Data Commissioner descends about your ears.

As I said before, and I repeat, the law in this country applies to everyone...whether you like it or not.

alex24 said...

Nice Penguin, good comeback especially the whole iq name thing.

One thing I dont get if you only believe in a "Human" race why do you care if there are 20,000 somalis in bristol?

Northern Lights said...

Dave - as I understand it we are obliged under the UN Convention on Human Rights to give refuge to those who have a genuine fear of persecution. Your post appears to suggest that we should set limits on the number of people with a genuine claim we allow in - this would be illegal. I also understand (correct me if I'm wrong) that Britain has fewer refugees per head than most other developed countries - and in fact claims in the UK are on the decline.

Dave said:

'PC Guardianistas do not debate the facts on race they just descend into name calling and cheap abuse'

Dave - this is what YOU did in paragraph 6 of that post.

ps. the 'righteous indignation' on show here from other bloggers is hilarious - in particular from Bill - I'm sure his home town isn't weeping at his departure.

Kerry said...

Again, did I say that I was going to approach any BNP members? No I didn't. Please pay attention.

Old Holborn said...

Are you still playing on that Interweb thingy? Get down here, your tea is on the table and we've got that nice Mr and Mrs George Abantwengo are coming round to try and get the pigeon out of our bank account.

Kerry said...

Actually someone who does have the full Excel file has just told me that one member has the following note against his name: "refuses to renew because they object to me wearing my bomber jacket"!

Kieron said...

The Penguin said:

"Ah, but Kerry, in giving the oxygen of publicity to your wrong-thinking and potentially law-breaking colleague, you are effectively a conspirator in a criminal conspiracy and just as guilty as he /she."

Does this mean that any time someone *comments* on any act, they become *guilty* of conspiring to bring about that act?

That's very odd.

If you're guilty just for mentioning something which someone else finds offensive, then practically everyone is automatically guilty of, well, practically everything.


It's worth pointing out that Kerry did not say that the Human Rights Act should not apply to the BNP (as La Bete tried to imply).

She just pointed out the irony that the BNP are now calling on that Act for protection, when they themselves opposed it.

And you have to admit, whether you are a BNP supporter or not, that that *is* ironic...

Kerry said...

Perhaps you could tell me who this colleague is that I am giving 'the oxygen of publicity' to? Thought not.

Guthrum said...

The BNP as far as I am aware is legal properly registered political party, its views are obnoxious in my eyes but it is not a proscribed organisation. Your views are equally as obnoxious to and I can lay my hands on the Bristol membership of the Labour party quite easily. However being a democrat I will not be doing that anytime soon, any more than I would be having the police investigate why your parties members should be holding certain jobs when I believe they are subverting this country. I defend their right and your right to engage in peaceful political action, or would you rather ban them, drive them underground and start a bombing campaign. For Christs sake just stop and think for two minutes, open your copy of 1984 and look up thought police.

Kerry said...

I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to guess how I feel about the BNP, but all I actually commented on was their hypocrisy regarding the Human Rights Act. You're arguing against propostions I never put forward in the first place.

Guthrum said...

As an MP and a solicitor you are an officer of the Court, your stance on the BNP list which is subject to an injunction is inappropriate.

Without the rule of Law, this country is done for.

Kerry said...

You're just making things up now.

Wyrm said...

"We know his party are great supporters of that piece of legislation - when it suits them."

Is that a denial?
It seems to me you agree that it's a violation of their Human Rights.

In any case, the BNP may voice ideas contrary to the Human Rights declaration.

But you are acting by illegally owning the product of theft.

And that makes all the difference.

For when the proposal of the implementation of laws on thoughtcrime?

Dennis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Northern Lights said...

You are an idiot - that post makes no sense whatsoever

Northern Lights said...

I wasn't talking about Dennis - the one before that - although now I come to think about it...

Kerry said...

I think a consensus is emerging.
It's OK for a blogger to ask for help from an accomplice so he can string an MP up from the nearest lampost, but not for an MP to open an unsolicited email which contains information that is already in the public domain. Glad we've got that straight.

RP McMurphy said...

Kerry, I think you're wise to ignore this list. With your surname, folk might have drawn some historical parallels.

Kerry said...

As well as my 'Firefighters for Kerry' memorabilia I have a 'McCarthy for President' badge. But that was Eugene.

alex24 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alex24 said...

As an Mp and an officer of the court I think Guthrum is well cleva.

What are the lessons learnt from this episode?

1. MPs should not open any emails sent to them

2. MPs should not be ironic or criticise other political parties

3. Labour opposes free speech and the human rights act etc etc

4. MPs, laws and taxes are responsilbe for every ill in the UK

5. If you dont agree you'll get taken to court

6.Wyrm is stupider than penguin who is stupider than guthrum

7. To become an MP just memorize 1984 and work backwards - deleting laws as you go. In fact get it tattooed on your face, then next time you are in a debate on digital broadcasting and the use of relays in West Dorset (taking place today) just start screaming "thought police, thought police."

8. The reason why your life is so rubbish is because of the immigants, yeah! Absolutely nothing to do with you its all them darn immmigants.

9. None of you who generalise about Somalians are racists your just xenophobes (Check Penguin on that)

Wyrm said...

Northern Lights,
You are a sad, sad person.
And not very smart either if you can't understand simple sentences written in English.

Thus said: GFYS.

Northern Lights said...

I can in fact understand simple sentences.

You don't appear to be intelligent enough to write them.

alex24 said...

Round of applause for Wyrm, another scalp claimed for the libertarian movement!

DaveA said...

Northern Lights: The UN Convention on Human Rights states the assylum seeker should seek safety in the first available country they land. My geography is not that good but to my best knowledge we do not share a border with Somalia.

Northern Lights said...

And what about this?

'PC Guardianistas do not debate the facts on race they just descend into name calling and cheap abuse'

...then...

'we have in this country allowed in too many immigrants and assylum seekers, who are highly visible, often unskilled and seem to come to the notice of the police far too often.'

You don't see how infantile and idiotic that sounds?

Northern Lights said...

You are right about the convention though - that's the reason the UK has about 3% of the world's refugees, whereas the developing world has far more.

Which would contradict claims made earlier wouldnt it?

Elby the Beserk said...

So, Kerry is content that a list under court injunction is passed around, whereas ....

... the report on Baby P is to be kept under wrappers. Not even the opposition will get to see it. Why? To protect those who fucked up.

Funny world you live in, Kerry. But then, New Labour are never responsible for anything that goes wrong, are they?

I guess it all started in the USA...

Sigh. God help us.

Guthrum said...

Officer of the Court for those who think I am making it up and for Alex24 in particular.

The generic term officer of the court applies to all those who, in some degree in function of their professional or similar qualifications, have a legal part—and hence legal and deontological obligations—in the complex functioning of the judicial system as a whole, in order to forge justice out of the application of the law and the simultaneous pursuit of the legitimate interests of all parties and the general good of society.

A lawyer is most certainly an officer of the Court and is bound to uphold the Law and tell the Truth. A High Court Judge has placed an injunction on the publication and use of this material. The above definition also extends to Law makers in that they have a general duty to uphold the Law for the general good of society.

I know the truth bit is a bit difficult for Alex to understand as are a lot of other concepts.

Little wonder that politics gets such a bad rap.

and Alex you are a racist, you define every thing by race

Northern Lights said...

That's the most blatant 'cut-and-paste from Wikipedia' post I've ever seen

Guthrum said...

'... the report on Baby P is to be kept under wrappers. Not even the opposition will get to see it. Why? To protect those who fucked up.'

The reason being that the 'professionals' will not cooperate... they will if summoned to a Public Examination under Oath.

This is a major scandal and coverup by Balls, as was the shooting of De Menezes by the State.

Guthrum said...

That's the most blatant 'cut-and-paste from Wikipedia' post I've ever seen

Your point being ? I was told I was making it up.

Happy pot boiling, I have been offered a list of Bristol Labour Party members since posting earlier. Obviously somebody has pissed off a former Labour Party member.

alex24 said...

Thanks to everyone who has read my book. A bloggers guide to the complete dummy

For those of you who are missing out here are some simple lessons

1. Choose a witty soubriquet. Something which makes you sound clever, preferably a character from an obscure novel. If you havent read a book use a character from a film.

2. Pick up on grammar or spelling mistakes to emphasise your point. If you havent got a point choose one from someone even angrier than you.

3. Use a straw man to make everyone who says anything reasonable sound like they are advocating child murder. If you dont know what a straw man is, you are probably using one anyway so dont worry.

4. Exaggerate, misquote and mislead. Deliberately misconstrue simple points in order to emphasise their advocacy of a position they werent taking.

5. Lend legitimacy to your argument by using the following expressions: guardianista, NuLab dear leader. This will instantly confound MPs and impress your blogging chums.

6. If youre in danger of talking about the issues, remember youre on shaky ground, back away. In fact its probably safer if you avoid this risk altogether by not reading the original post.

7. Talk about some mythical age in which this country hadnt had it so good. Usually before there were any immigrants.

8. If all that fails reduce everything to 1984. Pick a theme and repeat it over and over again until the internet ceases to exist, or were all dead, or whatever it is that youre sure is going to happen happens. This is a sure fire way to deal with your crushing sexual inadequacy

Guthrum said...

Alex- when you have finished with your witty riposte.

I understand that Kerry may be the subject of a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner and various offences under the Act.

Well done you lot, you have given the odious BNP hours of airtime, publicity and potentially broken the Law, because of your insatiable need to acquire Data on other peoples lives.

And I am not making this up either.

Northern Lights said...

I guess the point is that just pasting something from Wikipedia and masquerading it as one's own knowledge shows a certain lack of intelligence

Kerry said...

Guthrum, you are talking complete and utter nonsense. Leaving aside the fact that I haven't worked as a lawyer for many years, do not hold a practising certificate (I already have a full-time job so why would I want one), am not on the Solicitors Roll, or a member of the Law Society... you would still be wrong anyway. All MPs are subject to the Data Protection Act and have to register with the Information Commissioner, so we tend to know the law. Being sent a list of names - not even the full database - is not an offence. Sending it could well be, using it for a purpose for which it was not intended is. But not being sent it.

If I was to publish the list of names on my blog, and you were to read them, would you be guilty of an offence? No, of course not - although you'd have downloaded that webpage on your computer, which seems about on a par with opening an email. So stop being so silly.

PS Alex - I'm liking you a lot.

Old Holborn said...

Any chance you could give us a copy of the Baby P report that no one is allowed to read? (Well, no oppostion MP's and the Public).The one Ed Balls has just apologised for saying "his hands are tied"?

Go on, I won't tell.

PS. I've just been emailed an interesting memo from a Social Worker at Haringey. You wouldn't believe the cost of taking a child into care against the cost of leaving him with his murderous parents. And you wouldn't believe who told who to "cut legal costs in Childcare cases"

More tomorrow

Old Holborn said...

Sorry, should have mentioned that Ed Balls said his hands were tied by the Information Minister and that's why he couldn't let us proles or anyone else read the report.

Except they aren't.

And they've just said so.

Read and weep.

Elby the Beserk said...

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State -

Joseph M. Goebbels in Dissent and the Truth - German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

Elby the Beserk said...

http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/11/20/74819/701

Guthrum said...

All MPs are subject to the Data Protection Act and have to register with the Information Commissioner,

Hmmm, I am not a lawyer, and you profess no longer to be a Lawyer, however I am fully aware with the provisions of the Data Protection Act, and if you have downloaded this email to your computer, and your buddy clearly wants to 'engage' with BNP members in Bristol East. I suggest you dust off your Law books and look up Data Protection Act and records pertaining to sensitive data, which includes membership of trades unions, political parties etc. The Law applies to everybody amazingly enough even to MP's and members of the Labour Party.

There I wrote that without consulting wiki once !

Yet again encouraging people consider breaking the Law, instead of diseminating this data, you should have reported the matter to the Data Protection Minister.

I just cannot believe the publicity you given the BNP

Old Holborn said...

Oh dear, I gave the story of Ed Balls lying to Parliament to Ian Dale

Expect fireworks tomorrow

Old Holborn said...

And now Ian has given it to the Times

John Pickworth said...

alex24 - while addressing Old Holborn - said...

Reading your blog is like reading a 15 year olds homework. I particularly like your piece on the undeserving poor - where you mistakenly confuse your own life with everyone elses.

Lets get this straight - while you have gone on to be a roaring success, some people fall behind, more often than not through no fault of their own.


I'm sorry you feel like that. As a regularly commenter on Old Holborn's Blog I'm interested to hear why you have a problem with the concept (and for many a real daily experience) of the 'undeserving poor'? Do you deny that OH's post and the many many comments following it (some them truly harrowing) reflect a genuine problem?

Also, you state that "... some people fall behind, more often than not through no fault of their own."

Would you or the delightful Ms McCarthy care to share some examples? Seriously, in the interests of balance, I'd like to know more about these people and how they've fallen behind? A possible topic for this Blog maybe?

Perhaps if we understood the people and their problems we might be more sympathetic to their plight. As it is, most of us are simply told to pay up and shut up.

Kerry said...

"Your buddy clearly wants to 'engage' with BNP members in Bristol East". Er, no, wrong again. I said he was a colleague who represents a very white constituency. Did I say it was anywhere near Bristol? No. Go and stand in the corner with your dunce cap on.

Wyrm said...

Alex24,

Your sycophantic drivel destined to suck up to the power fools no one.

You are a mere tool in every sense of the word. And, yes, perhaps some day you will reap the benefits by being allowed into the Outer Party (here's another one for you to take a shot at).

So please, you and Norther Lights can GFYS. But, use condoms please.

TheFatBigot said...

What a fun theme this seems to be.

Just so we are all clear: not all lawyers are officers of the court. Solicitors are, barristers are not. A person who was once a solicitor but is no longer on the Roll is not an officer of the court. Whether someone who is no longer on the Roll should describe him or herself on their website as "a qualified solicitor" is a matter for them.

Being an officer of the court is irrelevant to the use which may be made of an unsolicited document received by email.

Regardless of how many other people have received the document, if it contains information covered by the Data Protection Act no part of that information should be used or disclosed to another without lawful excuse. To do so would be a criminal offence.

Giving support to a colleague who proposes to use such information for a purpose unauthorised by the Data Protection Act might be unlawful, it could amount to counselling and procuring a breach of the Act but only if the colleague learned of the support proffered. I saw no such support in Ms McCarthy's post, merely an observation that a colleague was planning to use the list. No doubt, because she supports the rule of law, she will take steps to ensure her colleague is aware of the terms of the Data Protection Act.

There is no hypocrisy in the BNP invoking the Human Rights Act in their favour while objecting to that piece of legislation. If (and I know not whether this is the case) the BNP supports the rule of law they are entitled to the protection of all laws currently in force even if they would wish to repeal them were they to be in office. Only if they did not support the rule of law would their stance be hypocritical.

As it is, it is logically inconsistent but not necessarily hypocritical. In that they stand four square with anyone who complains about them invoking the law in their favour.

Elby the Beserk said...

Kerry, Kerry, Kerry

Your "these people" says it all. Just remember, they are members of a legally constituted political party. You don't like them. I don't like them. But your actions show New Labour for who you are. You hold the law in contempt.

Good stuff about Balls. How we'd love to see *Him* squeal.

Elby the Beserk said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/20/bnp-far-right-labour

Whoops-a-daisy

"These people", as Kerry sneered...

alex24 said...

I just love the fact not one of you has addressed any of the original points i made on this post...

1. How can you rally against illegal immigrants if you dont believe in a state? what defines them as illegal in the first place?

2. When you prejudge a whole race of people as being of a certain type does make you a racist.

3. Would George Orwell support hanging people from lamp posts? Would he support discrimination on account of someone's race?

4. Penguin if you only believe in a "Human" race why do you care if there are 20,000 somalis in bristol?

5. Did Kerry publish the names of BNP members?

6. Where does Kerry mention that she will write to the BNP members?

7. Where does she indicate that it is a good thing that their names are in the public domain?

8. Where does she say that their views should not be heard?

PS Wyrm you know you have already lost an argument when all you can say is GFYS, you go girlfriend DMY!

AS for this whole thing about having sex with someone because you share the same opinion?

Did old holborn's teach you that at one of his post-libertarian slumber parties?

Kieron said...

Wow. How many posters on here actually read the original post before commenting? It would be interesting to know. There's now an argument over the data protection act, when all Kerry seems to have done is open an email which was sent to her...

TheFatBigot - thanks for a very reasoned post, one of the few on here. Though I disagree about the hypocrisy. If they have a publicly-declared policy of repealing the Act once they are in power, then presumably they believe that the protections in that Act shouldn't exist? Surely in that case they should have no problem with people doing things that are prevented by that law? As a political party, wouldn't they normally campaign for those people to be able to do what they want to do, free of the obstructions of that law?

If the BNP's primary concerns were that the rule of law was being undermined, then their comments wouldn't be hypocritical. But they weren't. So they were.

Can I suggest Wyrm's post above as a candidate for deletion. Surely he has better things to do than post pointless abuse.

The Penguin said...

Alex24
"6.Wyrm is stupider than penguin who is stupider than guthrum"

I simply cannot accept that. Even without the capitals to denote names.

Unless of course you can prove it?

The Penguin

Katabasis said...

Kerry,
you're being disingenuous here (again!).

No one can blame you for receiving the email in the first place.

Someone might rightfully asks questions of you however, if you have *kept* the email, with data intact, in full knowledge of what it contains.

Please confirm for the benefit of all present that you have either:
i) permanently deleted the email
or, at the very least:
ii) forwarded yourself a copy of the email with the content scrubbed, but the headers intact so you have proof of receipt - and thus some kind of audit trail, but with no offending data remaining on your PC.

You have deleted it, right?

Elby the Beserk said...

And the vigilantes are at work already.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5204727.ece

Democracy in all its glory, New Labour style.

By the way, Kerry, did you see the article about the Labour & Tory MPs who had been BNP members? I did post the link

Michael said...

I just love the fact not one of you has addressed any of the original points i made on this post...

1. Who said "we" don't believe in the state? State is seperate from a nation of people...

2. Same could be said about prejudging everyone on that BNP list or everyone who posts comments here (wouldn't be racist, just stupid)

3. I'm not Orwell so how should I know. But I know he wouldn't support prosecuting thought crime, that's why he wrote a book.

4. Because Somali is not a race?

5. Has she confirmed she's deleted it?

7. She hasn't exactly condemned it has she?

DaveA said...

I understand it is on public record that the BNP list was emailed to every Labour MP from Labour Party headquarters. Please put me right, if I am wrong.

If it is the case what was the purpose, mischief?

Answers, please.

Kerry said...

Well if they did, they missed me off their list. Anyway, I find all this outrage on behalf of the BNP quite hard to swallow. It would be nice if you could demonstrate at least a little outrage re their politics.

Elby the Beserk said...

You see - it's YOUR fault.



Rise of BNP is politicians' fault - Blears
Labour must take opposition to far right to the streets, says minister



The British National party has made advances because mainstream political parties, including Labour, have abandoned sections of the white working class, ignoring people's needs while taking their votes for granted, a government minister admits today.

DaveA said...

Kerry, I had a quick look at their website and on immigraton and they appear to of dropped the compulsory repatriation and replaced it with voluntary repatriation. They are also anti Europe and just to sound topical for me, against the smoking ban. Sounds on the face of it moderate to me.

I condemn the BNP for being Hitler admirers, holocaust deniers and gratuatous racism. I have a mentally disabled son (downs) and in the words of Michael Caine no' a lo' of people know it among the first people to be gassed in the camps were the mentally disabled. The mental assylums were cleared and anyone with downs syndrome, cerebal palsay, mentally handicapped or mad from 1939 were systematically sent to concentration camps to be gassed.

I have my own personal reasons to dislike the BNP, but as a democrat and libertarian with a small "l" believe that all views and parties be allowed to promote their agenda and as a mature democracy we are adult enough to come to the right conclusions.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/disabled.html

Devil's Kitchen said...

Hmmm, I think it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup.

Although I personally think that those who have the list should delete it: what party anyone belongs to is no more your business than who they vote for. People -- even BNP members -- have a right to privacy (under the requirements of courtesy, if not the law).

On a point of fact, any cursory reading of the BNP manifesto would reveal them to be socialists of the national variety: they believe in, for instance, renationalisation of industries to ensure that the owners are British.

They are economic idiots, amongst other things, and that is the basis on which we should attack them.

DK

Elby the Beserk said...

Kerry wrote ...

"I liked the way Nick Griffin described the leaking of the list as being in breach of the Human Rights Act... We know his party are great supporters of that piece of legislation - when it suits them."

And I noted - you mean the same way New Labour treat the Freedom Of Information act, I guess?

Elby the Beserk said...

" Kerry said...

Well if they did, they missed me off their list. Anyway, I find all this outrage on behalf of the BNP quite hard to swallow. It would be nice if you could demonstrate at least a little outrage re their politics.

Sat Nov 22, 12:30:00 AM"

I said I abhor them, but that given that they are a legitimate political party, I find your posturing pathetic.