Tuesday, 19 August 2008

Gimme, gimme, gimme

Mutley asking for a medal.

12 comments:

Terry said...

Kerry

Have just received this. This is an encouraging email that makes sense.

Many thanks for your email regarding the smoking ban- and my apologies it's taken me a while to get back to you.

My views on the smoking ban are fairly simple - I do not support or encourage smoking but a blanket ban on smoking in all pubs is an unacceptable infringement on peoples' personal choice to live as they wish. Smokers are informed adults who are capable of calculating risk for themselves. I am not a smoker, my father is a doctor, and I am as concerned as anyone about the health effects smoking can have - particularly on children and those who can't make decisions for themselves, but to make smokers social pariahs is unacceptable.

There are so many other solutions that do not involve a ban ( and in particular, I find a ban on private clubs particularly abhorrent.) For example, there could have been an incentive for pubs to be non-smoking ( such as a tax-break) but allowing pubs that so wished to continue to be smoking pubs. These pubs would do so if they could attract enough smoking clientèle ( which I have no doubt many would) and would have become known as 'smoking pubs.' Staff who wished to smoke would be able to work in these pubs with a smoking clientèle, leaving a smoke free environment for those who preferred it. That is just one idea of getting round the problem, but I believe in personal choice, and banning responsible adults from smoking in all pubs flies in the face of that, and reveals a complete lack of respect for the electorate.

I hope this is of some help.
Best wishes
Charlotte Leslie

--
Charlotte Leslie
Conservative Prospective MP,
Bristol North West

Glenn Vowles said...

Utter non-sense from Charlotte Leslie here. I find it very hard to reconcile her (apparent) concern about the health effects of smoking with her very weak suggestions for action to combat the habit.

Terry said...

I do not support or encourage smoking but a blanket ban on smoking in all pubs is an unacceptable infringement on peoples' personal choice to live as they wish.


You disagree with this then Glenn?

but to make smokers social pariahs is unacceptable.

You disagree with this then Glenn?


For example, there could have been an incentive for pubs to be non-smoking ( such as a tax-break) but allowing pubs that so wished to continue to be smoking pubs. These pubs would do so if they could attract enough smoking clientèle ( which I have no doubt many would) and would have become known as 'smoking pubs.' Staff who wished to smoke would be able to work in these pubs with a smoking clientèle, leaving a smoke free environment for those who preferred it.


You disagree with this then Glenn?

I believe in personal choice, and banning responsible adults from smoking in all pubs flies in the face of that, and reveals a complete lack of respect for the electorate.

You disagree with this then Glenn?

DaveA said...

Glen, I think the only difference between Oswald Mosley and you is he had a brown shirt and you have a brown nose.

Here is an article in The Sun saying Labour are getting a big kicking over the smoking ban and the Tories are thinking of re-introducing smoking in pubs. A vote winner for me.

"Members of the MP'S cigar & pipe club are fuming, more than a year after the Commons voted in Europe's toughest anti-smoking laws> That's because they can't find anywhere to meet in the precincts of Parliament and have to gather "like criminals" in each other's houses. Burt they aren't the only politicians convinced that the ban will be yet another drag on Labour's chances at the next election. Culture Media & Sport Secretary, Andy Burnham, told friends recently he is STILL getting protest letters from voters who see their communities going down the drain as pubs, clubs & bingo halls face closure. But The Whip hears the sound of approaching cavalry. On-off ciggie addict David Cameron's Tories are hoping to ambush Labour with a "Freedom Charter" during the election campaign. It will reverse the discredited hunting ban, scrap ID cards & non-criminals going on the DNA database, curb the health & safety Gestapo- and allow smoking in private working men's clubs & specially sealed off areas in pubs. Strike a light- they may be on to something."

Kerry said...

So are you nominating her for a Mutley medal?

Glenn Vowles said...

I fully support the smoking ban and in fact would like to see it extended to a greater range of locations.

DaveA said...

Glen, so democracy and freedom of choice are not the top of your priorities then?

Glenn Vowles said...

Hang on davea, you are going to have to do much better than trying to label me - if you are interested in genuine argument that is. Supporting the smoking ban is consistent with democracy and freedom of choice in my view.

The smoking ban was not sprung on people, it was brought in following an open, democratic process. It can be reversed by democratic processes too if you can gain enough support for removing it. I dont think the public will want to go back now we have the ban though - if anything they will want to go a bit further over time. So, yes, democracy is very high on my list of priorities.

As for freedom of choice, well, people are still free to smoke but aren't allowed to do so in places (not broadly defined enough in my view) where they are mostly likely to inhibit the freedom of people not to breathe in their smoke when they dont want to - which seems fair to me. These could be people at work, or people out for what they hope will be a pleasant evening out...(thank goodness you can now go to a pub for a few hours and come back not stinking of smoke). So, yes, freedom of choice for the whole range of people, is up there on my list of priorities.

Then of course there are the very weighty health, wellbeing and quality of life arguments against smoking, backed very firmly by the best scientific evidence...They interrelate with democracy and freedom too.

Terry said...

Glenn

Don't be a fool, I'm not gay but these bars exist (choice). You have your smoke free pubs and will have some smoking pubs. How will this effect you? Don't give me the staff argument, if they want to work in there that's their choice or shall we list all the dangerous jobs people should be banned from to protect them from themselves. You are a bigot sunshine.

DaveA said...

Glenn, I have just lifted this from ASH's website, the 2005 Labour manifesto was quite explicit in that pubs not serving food were exempt.

"The Labour Party manifesto commitment read: “We recognise that many people want smoke-free environments and need regulation to help them get this. We therefore intend to shift the balance significantly in their favour. We will legislate to ensure that all enclosed public places and workplaces other than licensed premises will be smoke-free. The legislation will ensure that all restaurants will be smoke-free, all pubs and bars preparing and serving food will be smoke-free; and other pubs and bars will be free to choose whether to allow smoking or be smoke-free. In membership clubs the members will be free to choose whether to allow smoking or to be smoke-free. However, whatever the general status, to protect employees, smoking in the bar area will be prohibited everywhere."

http://www.ash.org.uk/ash_j4wt3fj3.htm.

Kerry said...

OK folks, Glenn has his own website - http://vowlesthegreen.blogspot.com/

If you want to reignite the smoking debate, how about doing it on there?

Jacques Maritain said...

Smoking is a big problem for people and teenagers. Smoking can cause a lot of diseases like cancer, heart disease and emphysema. When a person begins to smoke they spend a lot of money buying cigarettes. Maybe they could spend millions of dollars because they buy a lot of cigarettes. http://www.chantixhome.com/